Beo! (freagraí ar: Oideachas Gaeilge Fhine Gael)

Peadar

Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:28:46 GMT

Marbh le h-airgead is marbh gan é. Tá an chúis millte le cur i gcéill, bréag-stadas is an meatacht.
Teanga acadamúil amháin é gan an Gaeltacht.

cherry

Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:26:47 GMT

N cheapfainn go n-oibreodh se sin

Peadar

Mon, 27 Sep 2010 22:19:28 GMT

Tá an Ghaeilge sa bhearna baol!...... an Ghaeltacht ag cúlú! Fill ar ais ar shompla ár sean sinsear a chuir an t-athbheochain ar siúl le feachtas deonach náisiúnta gan bach le maorlathas ná poiliteoirí.

john

Mon, 27 Sep 2010 15:02:41 GMT

Fancy Dan..
"Go into any shop or schoolyard in the Gaeltacht if you don't believe me. I was in Conemara myself during the summer while my kids were at the Gaeltacht in Inverin"

Do you think you could come up with something a teeny-weeny bit more scientific than that random observation to justify your assertion (I quote) that "People from the gaeltacht do not speak Irish to each other when at home"

Or do you stand outside Gaelscoil yards in Lucan, hear Irish, and conclude that all west Dublin semi-d land is speaking Irish?

Ciarán M

Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:49:58 GMT

Bhain mé an úsáide agus taitnimh as an alt seo. Tá cuid mhór eolais ann

Shiela G

Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:55:16 GMT

Ach tá ceist bhunúsach ardaithe ag Ronan. Cad ina thaobh go leanfá ag cur iachall ar dhaoine teanga nach mbaineann leo a fhoghlaim ar scoil nuair atá sé cruthaithe thar na blianta fada gur mó suim a bheadh ag foghlaimeoirí áirithe ann dá dtosóidís á fhoghlaim dá ndeoin féin?

mick mcmanus

Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:37:59 GMT

Níl a fhios agam a Olan. Tú féin a chur an cheist!!!!!

olan

Fri, 17 Sep 2010 14:15:56 GMT

Cén fáth go mbeadh airgead ar fáil do fhoghlaim Gaeilge.

olan

Fri, 17 Sep 2010 12:40:07 GMT

An ceart agat a Cholin. Agus cuimhini8gh gur beag buntáiste airgeadais atá ar fáiil do leanaí sna cathracha le Gaeilge a fhoghlaim

Colin Ryan

Fri, 17 Sep 2010 12:06:03 GMT

Mar Astrálach, agus i bhfianaise an eolais atá le fáil, déarfainn go bhfuil sé ródhéanach anois an Ghaeltacht thraidisiúnta a shábháil – agus féach go bhfuil Maidhc Dainín Ó Sé (thuas san eagrán seo) ar aon intinn liom. Níl de leigheas ar scéal na Gaeilge éigeantaí ach an siollabas a athleasú ó bhonn agus feidhm a bhaint as an tumoideachais nó as an leath-thumoideachais, ach is í an fhadhb chéanna atá ag Éirinn agus ag an Astráil – easpa múinteoirí dátheangacha. Is minic múineadh na dteangacha san Astráil fágtha ina phraiseach dá bharr, agus teangacha Bundúchasacha san áireamh. Aontaím leis an té a dúirt gur fiú an teanga Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn thar lear, agus mar chuid de sin ní mór gréasán láidir cainteoirí a chur ar bun, rud nach furasta. Tá meas agam féin ar an nGaeilge mar theanga fhíor-Astrálach (rud a chuirfeadh iontas ar roinnt Éireannach, b’fhéidir). Is cinnte ar aon chuma gur sna cathracha a mhairfidh an teanga feasta, más i mBaile Átha Cliath nó i Melbourne é.

Fancy Dan

Thu, 16 Sep 2010 18:03:54 GMT

Go into any shop or schoolyard in the Gaeltacht if you don't believe me. I was in Conemara myself during the summer while my kids were at the Gaeltacht in Inverin

john

Thu, 16 Sep 2010 17:56:49 GMT

evidence, troll?

Fancy Dan

Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:11:22 GMT

John, who are you kidding? People from the gaeltacht do not speak Irish to each other when at home

john

Wed, 15 Sep 2010 23:14:15 GMT

Rónán you say "john - Believe me, people from the gaeltacht do not speak Irish to each other once they have emigrated out of Ireland."

Believe me - Rónán, yes we do.

Shiela G

Wed, 15 Sep 2010 16:29:21 GMT

But Ronan what would you do with Maths? It's currently obligatory but continual results (including this year's junior cert) show that there are poor standards. Should that too be thrown of curriculum after junior cert or should it be reformed and made more relevant?

Rónán Ó Lorcáin

Wed, 15 Sep 2010 15:57:05 GMT

john - Believe me, people from the gaeltacht do not speak Irish to each other once they have emigrated out of Ireland.

Diarmuid Ó Raghallaigh - I was talking about normal people, not eccentric dickheads like you

Shiela G

Wed, 15 Sep 2010 08:31:46 GMT

Go deimhin tá alt san Indo inniu faoi. "Results spark new fear over standard of maths." Dá mba rud é gur "Results spark new fear over standard of Irish" a bhí ann bheadh ráiteas ó Fhine Gael ag rá go bhfuil sé in am athbhreithniú a dhéanamh ar éigeantas na GAeilge!!!!!!

Shiela G

Wed, 15 Sep 2010 08:08:29 GMT

Sea níl aon chaint ar Mhata a bhaint ón gcuraclam cé go mbíonn tuairisc gach bliain ag rá nach bhfuil bunscileanna suimiú srl ag daltaí na hÉireann. Cé fáth nach bhfuil Frankie Feighen, Inda Kinny agus a gcairde ag moladh go mbeadh rogha ag daltaí cé acu an bhfuil siad ag iarraidh maths a dhéanamh i ndiaidh an teastas sóisirigh?

Ogie

Wed, 15 Sep 2010 08:04:54 GMT

Maith an fear a Dhiarmuid. Níl aon amhras ach go bhfuil go leor ann nach bhfaighfeadh an deis, nó nach mbeadh in ann, comhrá a bheith acu i nGaeilge murach an éigeantas. Níl an córas scoilíochta foirfe ach nár cheart é a leasú seachas é a dhíbirt ón gcuraclam

Diarmuid Ó Raghallaigh

Tue, 14 Sep 2010 17:59:16 GMT

A Rónáin a chara... an asal tú? Cén caoi gceapfá nach bhfuil aon duine t'réis focal gaeilge labhairt i mbaile átha cliath ar feadh na céadta bliain. Labhraim gaeilge lem' chomhdaltaí sa chonradh ar hardcore street sa chathair ... taobh amuigh den scoil! [pause for screams of horror]. An mbeinn ceart tú a chuir i ngrúpa le na caora eile a deir "Oyrish, dats a f**kin dead lang-widge"..bheinn. Does that scare you Rónán, my little seal, crazy teenagers running around at night with their savage dead language?

Mór Liam Ó Súilleabháin

Mon, 13 Sep 2010 01:05:27 GMT

You can't expect a generation to be come fluent in Irish if it's only taught as a subject. If you truly want to make Irish the number one language in Ireland, make all the school just like gaelscoils where Irish is the language that everything is taught through. That is the biggest disservice that the government has done to the language by making it secondary. Make all national school gaelscoils!

john

Sun, 12 Sep 2010 13:16:38 GMT

Rónán, you make a point........
".......how come those emigrants never used the language again as soon as they left Irish shores? Surely if compulsory irish was so effective in attenuating the decline in irish, then it would have been used as a medium of communication between Irish emigrants..."

Irish-speaking people from the Gaeltachts used the language abroad when they emigrated and were in each other's company. They still do. Likewise English-speaking emigrants never used the Irish, or French(!), they learnt at school. What's your point? I have never made the point that compulsory Irish slowed the rate of Gaeltacht decline - I said that you cannot prove that compulsory Irish caused Irish to decline!

Frainc,

"Má bhrúitear rud ar dhuine ní maith leo é." Cen chaoi, meas tú, gur tháinig an Béarla isteach go h'Éireann? Ranganna oíche? Tá Béarla riachtanach, matamatic riachtanach. An cheart rogha a bheith againn ar na hábhair seo freisin?

Frainc Ó Séaghadha

Sat, 11 Sep 2010 09:14:13 GMT

Ach nach bhfuil pointe aige. Má bhrúitear rud ar dhuine ní maith leo é. É sin ráite táim sásta nach dócha go dtarlóidh moladh Khenny go luath dar leis an alt seo.

Seán P.

Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:08:42 GMT

If we followed your rationale a Rónáin we wouldn't teach art or poetry or anything else that didn't benefit people economically

Rónán Ó Lorcáin

Thu, 09 Sep 2010 16:23:26 GMT

john - you say that “Irish has been attenuated in this last 90 years, compared with the decades previously.” Well then, what about, the emigrant generation from 1950s-80s who were subjected to compulsory Irish. If the language did not go into decline then how come those emigrants never used the language again as soon as they left Irish shores? Surely if compulsory irish was so effective in attenuating the decline in irish, then it would have been used as a medium of communication between Irish emigrants who, in those days worked in almost homogeneous groups in building sites, etc, where English is not necessary to perform one's work. Using the odd word does not count, either. Also, those that were left behind (outside the Gaeltachts) by and large never uttered a sentence in Irish again to anyone once they left school, except to show off in front of foreigners, or to impress government official who provided them with grant for speaking irish.

The difference between Irish providing for themselves and the examples you have provided is that all cities that aspire to be regarded as modern and cultural NEED green spaces, museums and public transport. These facilities do contribute indirectly to the economic well-being of Dublin by presenting it as a pleasant, culturally aware place, with public transport facilities, thus attracting people who want to live and work there and also tourists. If you destroyed all this and turned it into a 3rd world slum, no one would come and spend their money or do business there. You don't need the Irish language for Dublin to be regarded as such. Dublin has existed without anyone speaking Irish to their fellow Dubliner for centuries. The point is, if people could see that it would benefit them economically in some way they would speak it.

Sally Ní dh

Thu, 09 Sep 2010 12:22:51 GMT

Alt suimiúil agus díospóireacht shuimiúil. Leanaigí oraibh!

Una B

Thu, 09 Sep 2010 09:30:53 GMT

Tá dul amú ort a Thomáis. Tá an ceart ag údar an ailt. Níl éinne ag rá go bhfuil an córas atá ann foirfe ach má mhuineann tú níos lú Gaeilge do níos lú daoine thar níos lú am = níos lú cainteoiri Gaeilge. Dála an scéil an-alt ach nil me cinnte ón alt an dtarlóidh an moladh seo nó nach dtarlóidh.

Breandan C Colbaird

Wed, 08 Sep 2010 20:47:19 GMT

Lean ar aghaidh leis an nGaeilge 'sna scoileanna; ná bac leis na sclábhaí. Is soiléar go bhfuil an tír grá ag ísliú le leanúint an TIGER ach toisc go bhdfuil sé marbh is féidir linn a bheith bródúil as cultúr na tíortha aris. D'éirigh leis na Iúdaigh a dteanga do aithbheocaint
Breandán C Colbaird, Muilleann gCearr

Fearghus

Wed, 08 Sep 2010 20:06:45 GMT

Táimse ag freastail agus i mo chónaí sa tuaisceart agus tá an ghaeilge róghanach ní maith liomsa é mar níl a lán daoine ag iarraidh é a dhéanamh agus measaim go mbeidh an rud céanna ag tarlú má bhéinn an ghaeilge róghanach.

john

Tue, 07 Sep 2010 18:05:55 GMT

1. "I can't help but find this apocalyptic terror that making Irish no longer compulsory in school has for some people."

No apocalyptic terror, Thomas - just a parallel drawn with non-compulsory Scots Gaelic which you have ignored.

2. "Has this policy resulted a significant rise of speakers over the last 90 years? No - the opposite in fact"

If we are dealing in "facts", you will be aware that the rapid decline of Irish has been attenuated in this last 90 years, compared with the decades previously. You cannot observe that the use Irish has declined at the same time as compulsory Irish has been in force and conclude that one caused the other. I refer you to the entry on Logic in Wikipedia.

3. "Continuing fruitless policies like compulsory Irish in schools and ludicrous money wasting policies like translating documents nobody reads must end."

Provide evidence for "fruitless". And while your at it, define "nobody". Does it include the translator? Or me? Or is it in fact you?

4. "It must start providing for itself." I see, so Irish is to be the subject of economic Darwinism. Anything else you'd like to see "providing for itself". St. Stephen's Green perhaps, a waste of prime city territory surely. Or the National Museum? The DART? What a drain on the finances!

Daithi Mac Carthaigh

Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:19:36 GMT

Lead on Thomas....by example. Scriobh an chead alt eile as Gaeilge!

Eoghan Ó Murchadha

Mon, 06 Sep 2010 11:55:38 GMT

Aithnítear a Bhreandáin a chara, go gceapann Urlabhraí Oid P an Lucht Oibre gur cheart í a dhéanamh roghnach. Cuirfear cath orainn mar Ghaeil gan amhras.

Thomas

Sun, 05 Sep 2010 22:05:15 GMT

I can't help but find this apocalyptic terror that making Irish no longer compulsory in school has for some people. Has this policy resulted a significant rise of speakers over the last 90 years? No - the opposite in fact. People have come to see it as irrelevant and a waste of time. The promotion of the Irish language needs a new completely new strategy if it is to survive. Continuing fruitless policies like compulsory Irish in schools and ludicrous money wasting policies like translating documents nobody reads must end. Instead efforts must be focused on pragmatic solutions that will engender new generations of speakers, communities where it is socially acceptable to speak Irish and Irish becoming a independent cultural entity that is not dependent on huge government grants to maintain its survival. It must start providing for itself.

I believe this can be achieved by:

1. Ensuring that all the national schools in gaeltacht areas become gaelscoils over the next 10 years and secondary schools over the next 20 years.

This will both reintroduce the Irish language to communities that have stopped speaking it, but in a gentle way. Competence in English should be a priority. As a result, you will have significant areas in Ireland where Irish is the main form of communication in just 20 years. Gaelscoils will assuage the cultural shock of communities making the transition from English to Irish speaking.

2. Encourage the Irish Diaspora to learn Irish.

With a global community of 50 million, if even 5% are encouraged to learn Irish, that's 2 and a half million people. Irish communities in Britain, the U.S.A, Canada and Australia should be enfranchised to see Irish as 'their' language too. The Diaspora should be encouraged to come on organised excursions to the gaeltacht to immerse themselves in an Irish speaking environment in the same way that many students in Ireland attend summer colleges.

3. Ensure that speaking Irish is more socially acceptable in the galltacht.

Years of compulsory Irish in schools has resulted in people who speak Irish in public as viewed as a somewhat eccentric or just pretentious. The only way Irish can flourish in English speaking communities in Ireland is if it changes its cultural position. While not being a compulsory subject to learn, it should be looked upon as an essential part of an Irish identity (in the same way that, for example, one could not imagine someone having a strong French identity if they could not actually speak French). It would be more effective if gaelscoils in the galltacht were allowed to rise organically and without the stigma of pretentiousness that fluency in Irish has in society. More people would be attracted to these schools, especially if they were sure that these schools have a good reputation of providing a quality education and an authentically Irish experience for their children.

Ideas outlined in the '20 year strategy' mentioned in the article seem to put more emphasis on encouraging adults to change the way they communicate spontaneously and and placing more pressure on teachers to inspire children to speak in a language that goes against the grain of their peers and their families. If you want to achieve something it is better just to focus on your strengths. We should encourage and support only those who are enthusiastic about the language; forcing people to speak or learn it will only further repulse them away from it.

More fruit will be borne through encouraging communities, especially those of the gaeltacht, to use gaelscoils for their children's education. It may take a generation but it will guarantee a that Irish will become the language of the community once again.